[THE RELATIONSHOP] What Is the Idea of Mutual Submission? (Episode #8)

The RelationShop crew discusses relationships seen on reality TV (90 Day Fiancé, Married at First Sight, etc.) and throughout Pop Culture in order to provide good relationship advice that works.

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This is The RelationShop where we talk about these relationship shows. We analyze them, accept them and just them and hope to help you. I’m Toya and with me, I have Jason and Eric. So I got something a little different. Fellas are. So we’re gonna actually answer one of our listeners. Question. Okay, so at what point do you stop arguing in front of your kids? So I think it’s it’s more like, Okay, let’s say you are arguing, and then your kids just kind of walk in or come into the room when you’re, like, right in the middle of a heated discussion, or should I say maybe passionate discussion?

Yeah, That’s a good question. That is your first quest. Yeah. Let those little rugrats walking him out, Kick him out. I think. I think, man, I don’t know. This could go either way, you know? I mean, because part of me says, yeah, kids don’t need to see it, But then the others, like, you know, the kids need to see that need to see how you resolve stuff, and I mean, I don’t know. What do you think? I think that’s the question Have Sasuke There’s to chaos, right?

The one camp is people who say, I’ve never seen my parents ever have an argument. And then there’s the other side, which is my parents yelled and argued and did all kinds of stuff in front of us, and I saw it, and I don’t want to be like that. So there must be something in the middle. Got some is healthy because I don’t think it’s healthy for in fact, I talked to somebody today. In fact, this crazy question. I talked somebody today that said, in their home growing up, they never saw their parents ever argue, and so and he’s now twice married.

In his first marriage, he said, him and his wife start having arguments, and he thought to himself, Something’s wrong with us. My hair has never argued. Where are you in something’s wrong. So I think you can set an unhealthy example by never arguing. Yep, but where’s the limit on what’s OK and what’s not okay? And maybe if you are, are you running from the kids that you might, uh, that might be a little accountability that, you know, it doesn’t get ugly all right, You would. You know he would.

I don’t know if that’s the case. So here’s what I would say to answer that question, and you can affirm or contradict me. I would say that in general, Mom and Dad should not be arguing in front of the kids because most people don’t have healthy conflict. True, right, We get defensive, we get upset. We say stuff. We don’t mean something in general, it’s probably not healthy for younger kids to see parents combative because they don’t understand it yet. And they may see faces or words or volume and get fearful, right?

Say in general. But I also think it’s good for kids to realize that we will have conflicts a time, and we do have to resolve conflict. So if you have a healthy conflict resolution, communication climate, then you can have some disagreements in front of kids. I think if you can’t do it, you definitely want to steer clear until you can figure out how to do it in the healthy way and then also, if if you mess up in front of kids, then I think you need to show them what it looks like to apologize for What is the backside look like?

And can you bring the kids together and say, Hey, earlier? You know, I raised my voice or I said some things to Mom, which was disrespectful. And I won’t apologize to her in front of you guys and apologize to you so they can see you. Gotta be a teachable moment. Yeah, like it. Hopefully that helped our listener, yeah, emailed a question in again. And if you have any questions, just emailed them into TheRelationShop@power77radio.com. And we could be happy to answer some of those on air. Good.

A lot of that. That eggplant question for Jason is gonna be Oh, bring it might be in the way it does all now. So let’s jump in. Today we’re talking about today. Today is everybody’s favorite subject. It’s something everybody always wants to talk about. The big s word submission. No takers. So you if you bring up submission at your next dinner table discussion and probably everyone’s gonna stare at you like you ruin the party, I won’t talk about submission today and really the idea of mutual submission so let me start with Scripture.

That way people will feel somewhat sanctified before you take them down. That dark at ever landing, going eyes your favorite shows. Let me give you Scripture Visions 5 21 says Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. That’s our big submission verse, Paul says. We need to submit to one another out of our reverence for dry. So it really has nothing do with the other person. But Christ, tell us what you’ve been watching this week, guys, huh? I’m have to go to 90 day fiance before the 90 days, and I’m thinking of Rebecca and the Ed, and she’s of course, the American.

And he is in Tunisia and he’s younger, by the way. And yes, yep, and come to find out they’ve been dating online for a while. I don’t know how long, but the point of it is she’s actually still legally married to her, a husband who is Moroccan and he doesn’t know yet and yet he has no idea. No idea yet. She’s just dropped the other bomb on him. Oh yeah, that she was with a woman at a relationship with a woman and he didn’t like that. He didn’t.

Yeah, that didn’t go over. Well, okay. And this may be a little off. So what in the world are you guys? Raj is public. Hold on public service announcement for those listeners. I won’t apologize that your I Q just dropped Teoh chick who’s very real foods fiance. After the 90 days before, for a moment, I could sit down with my Children and teach them This is trying to do not When do Deuteronomy said with your kids and you sit down and when you wake up and when you travel, I don’t think this is what they meant, man.

My interpretation way, Fowler. Translation around me. Okay. Anyway, back to your, uh whatever. Yes. What? That is my question on this. I don’t want to get too far, but when do you? I mean, is it when you reveal stuff like that? That was then in the typing online. Are you saying you tell somebody you’re trying to marry, that you’re already Mary saying this Let me backtrack a little bit. I’m just saying this, that I guess it’s honorable what she’s doing. But like, there’s some things that that my wife probably did before May.

I don’t want to know. I just don’t want to know. So, Jason, I don’t want to know. Wait. Oh, you’re talking about her being with a woman. I don’t want to know. I got it. Got it? Yeah. You want to know what Europe up for? No. Uh, I want to know everything. Yeah. Okay. You know, Janice is spending the night when I’m gone. I might want to know now. That’s not there. If it was, then I don’t want to know. Anyway, I guess I see what you’re saying.

Look, a history. You sometimes a good predictor of future performance. Hope I just over my head in the same nothing. All right, so, submission. Yes, a mission. So I have to say, personally, this has not really been a huge issue in my marriage, So I guess you can say that. I mean, you should bring your husband on e story. I don’t think I don’t think so. I like having the man my husband, and I’m just saying, giving the example of the man being the man I need a man to take charge a man that’s going to be timid that I can walk all over.

I’m not going toe. Want that? Like I need a man to say. Note this what we’re doing Be mad at me if you want to. This is what it is. And I’m like, Oh, who? I throw a flag on that. Hey, come on. You’re telling. Oh, yeah, someone to tell you what to do, even if you don’t want to do it. Okay, But listen, the cool thing is like, I know his heart. That’s the other thing. Like, I know that he is one with God like he is very spiritual.

I know that he is in his word. I know the I know his foundation. Now, if I didn’t trust his foundation than that would be so did like if I felt like, Oh, he’s not gonna make a wise decision. I have to do it. He’s not going to pay the bills. I have to do it. He would not doing what do you do with our favorite prophet Jeremiah? This says the heart is deceitful above all else. I’m just telling you, my experience got quiet that would that go?

I’m just saying, like I wanna listen. I want to believe I got a good heart. I want to believe that that I’m carrying. I want to believe that I always and trying to be godly. Yeah, but I also know my heart’s wicked and I’m Satish And there’s moments where hey, I’m not always gonna choose was best for my wife because I’m selfish. OK, that’s true. But that’s why I also we talk about things, too. So it’s not like I just kind of sit back and I do what he says.

It’s more of a like a school, a man that just takes, but, you know, like the important things, you know, like it’s just that trust. What can I say? I don’t know, but that hasn’t been an issue of mine. And I know like some friends or just like I can’t do that, this is like but why? And then it all boiled down to I just don’t trust him to make the best decision. I feel like I have to do it, and I feel like that’s really what it is when certain women just don’t want to have that type of submissions, So okay, but we’re talking about mutual submission so What?

So basically in a nutshell, submission is just doing something for the other one. But right. Is that just just taking yourself out of it and do it for them? Right, You know? So we’re talking mutual submission. Can be. Doesn’t have to be anything, major. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It’s talking toe talking to pastor there and, you know, a little bit beforehand. And, you know, my, uh my submission is actually way too many Ryan Gosling movies, but that’s my submission, huh? Way too many ways. That many. Is it one is too many. Yeah. Yeah.

No, baby. I love those Hallmark movies again. Again with the same actors and actresses with the same plot in the same ending. You’re right. Yeah. So that’s myself. This is an act of submission for you to watch something my wife wants to. I think that’s a That’s a small small When now she, on the other hand, you I’m into the Prison Ministry. Thing goes of that. That’s not her thing, But she does. She goes and supports. That’s our thing. So got it. Yeah. I mean, it’s not a great and used to come visit you when you were in prison way.

Yeah, they call me a plan in prison. I I’m not even gonna walk here. I e. I could run on that for a while. Thanks. Going to choose the godly path? There’s actually another couple, though, that comes to mind. And that’s, um, Avery and Omar. She’s the young American. Like what, 20? And then Omar is. You know, he’s in his twenties as well. So he’s Muslim from Syria, and she’s from Ohio who just recently converted. And so now she’s a Muslim. But, um, it’s gonna be something that kind of, you know, I wish that we can see their story mawr tow watch how they’re both gonna be able to submit toe one another because America and with her it sounded like she struggled with submission like before.

She even got to know him and is because it’s on. It’s layered for her. So it’s like not only this the cultural submission of her being an American and possibly moving to a Muslim country, then also the religion part and like how women you know are treated in Muslim conflict was going to say in Muslim countries, right? I wouldn’t from what I’ve seen. I guess I would say it doesn’t seem like that’s a That faith is a mutual submission. Faith. It seems like that is a male dominated female submission, even in the last with last episode that there is a little argument and he said she hasn’t learned that she has to be going.

Yeah, I mean, way styling. Is that what Paul meant by mutual submission? Probably not. Probably not that that’s one way submission that. Yeah, yeah. So she’s gonna have to adjust. Although they didn’t shut up. No. So it’s gonna be interesting. What do you think? I mean, with them, I honestly if I could guess Now, from what I’ve seen, I don’t know that she is going to go back. You know, I don’t I don’t know. Americans will back to Syria. So you don’t think she’s going? I think something’s gonna happen.

Yeah, I don’t know. She’s so young and flaky. Anyway, I think this is a scene like a face staff thing. So we just pulled the troops out of there anyway. So is about to be 15 CMS anyway, way just win political. But it is a political show. It’s good. Steer back that Let’s stare back to faith for a minute. What is this idea of mutual submission? If you go back and read Paul in Ephesians 5 21 says, submit to each other out of reverence for Christ. So he’s established there already that our submission is not about the person.

Warm relationship with our submission is tied to our relationship with Christ, right? Which I would deduce then, if you first have not understood individuals submission to Christ in your relationship with him, you’re gonna have a hard time submitting to another person, right? Yeah, right. Well, yeah. And of course, the one verse everybody brings up right is what? Why I submit to your husband, which is what they don’t finish that well. It’s a features 5 22 But here’s the problem that people don’t want to look at the context of what’s around it.

All right, let’s start there and work backwards. He just 5 22 wives submit to your husbands. As to the Lord, this is still a faith movement. Right here is the idea of a hide submission. Submission has nothing to do with weakness or inferiority has everything to do with faith wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord, Which means my trust is not in my husband. My trust is in my lord s so I can submit to the man that I’m in relationship with because I trust God’s got our back, both of us.

But we have to back up, which diverse right before has already told us Submit one to another out of reverence for Christ. So there’s already established a foundation of mutual submission where husband and wife are both what you said earlier, Jason which is like a Philippians stews type of stuff. Do not think of the interests of yourself, right? Don’t be selfish, but think of somebody else. Don’t put yourself for so that’s believers should be submitted to one another because that’s the way the believers reacting behavior one right.

But let’s peel back even more. So we went Ephesians 5 22 wives submit the husbands. We backed up one verse submit one to another If we back up four more verses in Ephesians 5 18 Paul is telling us we need to be filled with the spirit. Seems to be a precursor, right, that if I don’t first have the spirit of the living God in me. Meaning? I understand that I have accepted salvation and submitted my whole life to Christ. I’m not. I’m not gonna be in a position to then submit to each other and then turn around, submit the one person. Yeah.

So there’s, uh there’s a little prerequisite going on before you get to that scene. Why? Every husband loves the Yeah, you lose a little firepower any crazy when you have to actually read Scripture. So frustrated. Just pull out some verses. Yeah, that’s why we watch 90 days. Yeah, I just I feel like I’m made up for that. Her him married chick debacle that you started with by bringing us back to square. How many? How many people have how many people the UC and your office struggle with marriage business because of this issue, everybody.

Yeah, well, think about it if I’m truly at a place, So here’s the fear, Right. I think we talked about this before. Jason, Here’s the fear of submission. If I submit to this other person, they can take advantage of me. All right. If I submit to them, I’ll become the doormat if I submit to them, they’ll walk all over me. So me wanting not to submit is really a fear move. If I’m truly at a place where I believe that God’s got me. Where God, to the source of everything I need like we’ve talked about before.

Security, identity, significance, purpose. If God’s got me in all those, if I have full faith in God to cover every need I’ll ever have, that he’s got my back, that he’s for me. I’ll think about all the rallying Scriptures that all your old saints love to shout If God, before you, who can be against you and all that stuff, If I really believe all that stuff right, then why would I have a problem submitting to other people, but especially my wife, who’s supposed to love me? If I really believe that God’s got me on the back end?

Yes. So what you’re saying somewhat to is this where you go back to before you even get married to do a little homework on who you’re marrying? Maybe a little bit, because, I mean, I could see that I can see a little bit of fear of your asking me to give up from myself to somebody that I don’t know that I trust to give up to the home. That’s why I say if people have not first established that with God, and I would say a a big portion of Christians have not right.

They, like Jesus is savior. They don’t like him, his lord, and we may pray for something for a day or two, and then God doesn’t show up. And so we take it back from and we we take control ourselves. If you’ve not established an ongoing relationship with God, where you really do trust in him toe, have you You’re not gonna do it with somebody else because that my wife’s gonna fail me, right? Your has been toy. Your wife, Jason. They’re gonna sail us, right? Yeah. And if I’m depending on them to be my source, then yeah, I’m going to control and manipulate my operate out of fear.

There’s no way I’m submitting to you because I’ve watched your track record and you don’t even make the best decision for you at times. Little me. All right. So where do you go with this? What do you go with? Let’s just say, Oh, let’s just say Avery and Omar are married and sitting in your office and we’ve got two different faces. It’s the one that’s that’s married to someone else. Dio and a I think this is the young 20 year old. Just just debauchery. Think this is that it’s the young girl who converted to Islam.

Now she thinks she’s all into Islam and all that, but she really doesn’t have that background, right? So now they’re sitting in your office as a married couple and let’s just say different face. Maybe even how do you How do you work that? So that there is the big problem, right? Because first, we’re having discussions about shared values like we’ve talked about before on this show, right? Which is you don’t even share the same value in the area of your faith. So how can I get you toe submit to somebody that you put it this way?

It’s hard enough to submit to somebody that you know, believes like you do thinks like you do is going in the same direction. How you gonna submit to somebody who some of their ideas you’re fundamentally opposed to? I don’t want to submit to that Because I completely disagree with your perspective and beliefs on life. So that would that would be a tough discussion, I think, to ever get with people who have differing values like that. Because not that I don’t even trust you. I trust that you would make this decision.

But I disagree with what drives your decisions. Right? So that would be real hard. So you’re pretty much teaching them how to be good roommates if they’re going to stay together because they don’t have a good foundation together. I I would tell a couple like that. Why don’t we start with find the smallest minute things that you don’t care a whole lot about and submit to your spouse in those. All right. Ryan Gosling movies Hot. Uh, where where you go out to eat? Um, which dishes go in which cabinet or drawers Just started thinking about the stuff that they would do different than you, but is not a big deal to you.

At least get some wins under our belts. Like I’m learning. I can submit to that part of its dying to yourself right on. And I could submit to you in some of these little things that maybe I could build up to some bigger, but can I just I don’t know how you get past a difference in share values that only I don’t know how you around around that corner and submit to somebody when you’re not even in agreement with a bunch of stuff that they’re thinking about.

Yeah, Makes sense. So what about you? What about you guys? So I was gonna add something else. Um, so with me and Ahmad, it’s crazy. He’s always been into astrology and science and me, I could care less, but a part of mutual submission. So one day, I was just like, you know what? Let me really pay attention to this. And this is how it happened. We were watching, um, interstellar. And then we went and saw at Astra Assets. Babe, why is it that we watch these astronauts go out in space and stars are, like so far away have come there never close to any stars.

And he was just like, you’ve got to be kidding me. And he was like, Are you serious? Right now? Said that’s what he called me. He was struggling that day, man. I don’t get it. So anyway, come to find out the sun is like the only star in our solar system. I just learned this. So, um, you skip third through sixth grade. What happened? You didn’t have to do a solar system project with Styrofoam things. I did. You know what? I don’t know what happened. I just forgot it all.

I just I need a modern here to settle the question. I’m still confused. Is Pluto’s a planet or not? No. I feel like they went back on it again. No, it’s not. It’s not. I did just hear that Saturn has now been crowned with the planet with the most moons. Three Teoh. I guess you are. The moon champion does the universe on Netflix. I know. Just a little bit. Morning mob go like all the way as faras like naturally breeze buddy. You know, like I know I believe in science.

We need to baptize him next time. We’re probably only do that. No, it’s not your Liberator. Yeah, I see that the greatest movie ever. I can’t believe you didn’t see Never big I wear my stretchy pants. That is get everything. That’s your thing. You. So you’re saying you submitted sidetracked us? You were submitted to a model trying to act interested. Um, in the stellar universe actually got interested. He’s always been into it. I will fall asleep on the documentary. And then I was like, Wait a minute, we were in the car and I was like, I bet that’s a planet.

I don’t think that’s a star. And so I downloaded this app, and sure enough, it was Jupiter. Did you ever see Star Wars? Let’s start there. Let’s go back there. Look, did not tell you I did watch all the Star Wars, Okay, But I just don’t remember. My memory is not great. I got you. So you know. Hey, that you’re trying. I can see. Hey, I’m moving on getting it. You tell everybody you bump into the sun is a star. You would be surprised how many people I tell this story to.

And they’re like, I didn’t know that either Seriously. A lot. A lot of my friends are laughing when they look in the space that those stars air super small, but when they stare at the sun like burns air red. They were like one must be closer in the way. You know what? They were like me, though. They just didn’t really care. But now I’m kind of into it. But, you know, it’s cool. I know this is a little off, but I love watching it because it just shows how good God is like seriously, you know, his design.

And like, we can literally we can’t go anywhere else. Like Earth is for us. And I don’t care what anybody says. They keep looking. I don’t think we can go anywhere else. This is it. Okay, let’s go back to a mission. I gotta thought that just came to me because, you know, we take everything and we take it at eso. We’ve been talking about the idea of God’s design for marriage. Is husband and wife mutually submitted one to another. Which means the principal and foundation is I’m not looking out for my own interest.

First, I’m looking out for your interests first that I want to put you first. I want to put your needs first. I’m here to serve you. I want to love you unconditionally. And that if if husband and wife are both doing that. You got a great marriage. You’re not fighting over who’s selfish. You’re fighting over who can be unselfish, right? Who could serve who? Most obviously, That’s a great foundation for marriage. But the thought I just had was just like anything I think we could take out of context.

Sometimes people who lack self esteem, people who need the relationship because their needs are not met with God. We call it co dependency. I need you. I need you to need me. I’m stuck on you. I think sometimes we can take this idea of mutual submission and run all the way into our Brokenness and say, Well, I’m just being submitted to them. But the reality is your fearful of ever opposing your spouse because of the repercussions and the consequences you might get and fearful of losing a relationship.

So you get people who they could go. I’m just being godly. I’m submitting. But the reality is your GIs catering to whatever they say because you’re fearful that if you ever confront them, you may lose a relationship. And that’s not a healthy just just went over everybody in 90 day fiance. I’m gonna do this? I don’t want Teoh that every every single double kind of took the spark out of it for me. Did you know I’ll be back? Luckily, still have marrying Million’s married a first wake up, seven year itch switch or so I can’t even keep a girl.

Yeah, can’t. You can’t get too busy watching him. Just not telling us watching. You know about him. Yeah, I know. Try to sign on what your wife says. You what you want sometimes that maybe you j fiancee. I don’t think she watches. Maybe you should submit to her and watch it with. I won’t pray about that. Yeah, quality time relationship shows Paulo Ceci be said be filled with the same way. I feel like that was the feeling we get less. Yeah, I got a little bit of tension between what the Bible says and what Jason Fowler said.

I’m a wrestle with that wasn’t weak and try to figure out. So here’s the reason, right? Here’s a recap on mutual submission. Paul is instructing us in the book of Ephesians that we need to be submitted to one another in marriage, that that’s a healthy marriage not that one submits to the other all the time. But there’s mutual submission, right? And he backs up and tells us that it looks like in order for us to pull that off, we’ve got to be filled with the spirit. This not something we can do out of our own strength.

And it’s a faith walk, which is my faith is ultimately not in my spouse, although they need to prove themselves trustworthy and faithful. My faith is in God, and I believe God’s got me covered. And because guys got me covered, I now can submit to my spouse. I think that goes into I consume it to other relationships. Aiken submit to authorities in my life. I can submit to my boss at times when I don’t like what he’s saying. But all of it comes back to the foundation of submission is facing you Go tough talk elected. Awesome.

Well, thank you all so much for listening to The RelationShop again. I’m Toya and have Eric and Jason and for any questions just email TheRelationShop@power77radio.com. We will answer them live.

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